Final 2015 Sidecar roadracing rules

//Final 2015 Sidecar roadracing rules

Final 2015 Sidecar roadracing rules

Sidecar-B

The final rules document for AHRMA Sidecar roadracing is now complete and available here.

This will also be available on the Roadrace Schedule & Results page, and the Member Resources page for future reference.

By | 2016-11-22T19:37:48+00:00 December 31st, 2014|Road Racing|13 Comments

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13 Comments

  1. Dale Lavender January 4, 2015 at 5:11 pm - Reply

    Thanks everyone for your help and comments. I believe we have a good document that will serve AHRMA and The Sidecar Community now and in the future. Any thoughts, comments or suggestions always welcome but all changes will now go through standard AHRMA Rule Change Protocol. Remember with rule changes, documentation is helpful to describe or picture the change you are proposing.

  2. Larry Campbell (the older one) January 4, 2015 at 6:23 pm - Reply

    10.10.2.9 All oil containment systems hall comply…” hall” should be “shall”.
    10.10.3.1 Examples: BMW Rennsport RS54 (mid 1950’s) The R50/5 & R60/5 were mfg’d from 1970 to 1973. What you need to have here is the R50/2, R60/2, R69 & R69s
    All gaskets must be in their original location. Where else could they be. I say delete that statement.
    10.10.4.1 Engines. Examples: BMW Rennsport up to 750cc. The Rennsport (RS54 was built in the mid 50’s & was 500 cc. Some fuel injected some carburetted. What you need here is the R50/5 (500cc), R60/6 (600cc.) & R75/5 (750cc)

    10.10.4.2 Working brakes on front & rear wheels is mandatory (“is” should be “are”)

  3. Dale Lavender January 4, 2015 at 9:53 pm - Reply

    Larry Campbell Sr. please submit these as rule changes for consideration. I believe you have up to June 1st 2015 to due so please check AHRMA web or your Vintage Views for further details.

  4. Ryan Hunt January 7, 2015 at 9:15 pm - Reply

    For a start 10.10.d is foolish and should be removed. If a racing rig is built within the rules and ends up being fast you should not have to endure a penalty.

    yes dale, i’m sure I will have rules proposals.

  5. Dale Lavender January 8, 2015 at 2:59 pm - Reply

    Ryan,
    10.10.d is a rule within USCRA and was suggested by Douglas Donelan. It simply gives the Road Race Director more latitude. Notice the word “power” not faster. Your comments and proposals are welcome.
    Thanks
    Dale

  6. Gregg Bonelli January 11, 2015 at 9:51 pm - Reply

    I think the 1000cc four strokes vs. 350cc two strokes in P1 is a bad idea if what we want to do is encourage people to take an interest and build rigs to come out and race. 1967 as a cut off date for two stroke twins misses competitive motors by just 2 years – 1969, when there were actually H1 and T500 Suzuki’s out there on the track racing. Then to let RD400s in with P2s simply skips over a decade of competitive two stroke motors that predated them which are plentiful and have no place to race. We now require those machines to use mufflers in the novice production classes against larger four stroke machines that can use competition exhausts. The myth that two strokes have an advantage should be reconsidered in light of the power the new generation 350 Honda twins produce. So, I suggest we let 5 speed 350 Yamaha twins like the ’69 R5 compete in P1 at the least.

  7. Dale Lavender January 12, 2015 at 3:54 pm - Reply

    Thanks Gregg,
    As with any rules and dates we must pick. The 1000cc Vincent is a more an exhibit than racer and we followed USCRA to allow Pete to compete in a class. Having said that he brings it starts from the back goes around the track and is satisfied as we are to see and hear such a unique well fabricated rig. As for dates again we followed USCRA and VRRA unfortunately many great motors fall in no-mans land. For example the Kaw KZ750 Twin would be perfect stock and cheap but it’s a year to late. And although we considered the Kaw H1 P2 Class was original fabricated by the USCRA as a twin class so we’ve maintained criteria. The effort is to have all 3 Vintage Groups consistent to allow each to build and race together. If you would like submit a rules proposal change we’ll look at it again.

  8. tim joyce January 16, 2015 at 3:07 pm - Reply

    Dale, that’s a big can of worms. its not exhibit if it wins championships .I would hate to have to run a stock 450 Honda in p-1 with a 1000 cc. just my 2 cents .talk about power advantage 🙂

  9. tim joyce January 16, 2015 at 3:16 pm - Reply

    Ryan , very good point , that rule has already been used on us at Barbers last year. we had no power advantage but were faster and won the first day and moved to the back of the grid for day two while second place got moved up. I didn’t care but if someone had wrecked us getting to the front after getting moved to the back for no reason I would have been pissed .I realize Dale was just trying to make it a good race but rules are rules. pick on Dale day 🙂

  10. Ryan Hunt January 23, 2015 at 10:18 pm - Reply

    Per 10.10.d define how you are going to identify or quantify a ‘significant power’ advantage??

    Lets say there are two rigs that have identical power but one rig is over 150 lbs lighter. What do you think that is going look like on a racetrack?

    I still think the performance limitations should be removed. If you define the class and engine properly you won’t need them. Just like the “examples” Unless it it really outside the rules (ie a 1000cc vincent in p1) it shouldn’t be required. That said if there NEEDS to be exceptions (like being able to see the a beautiful 1000cc vincent on a track) then make the exception known.

  11. Ryan Hunt January 23, 2015 at 10:34 pm - Reply

    gregg,
    Maybe something like this???

    10.10.3 PERIOD 1 VINTAGE SIDECAR OUTFITS (P1):
    P1 sidecar outfits are limited to front exit outfits built before December 31, 1968 and outfits constructed after such date that are consistent in design and construction with outfits actually built in this period, subject to the following restrictions:

    10.10.3.1 ENGINES:
    Two stroke engines shall be air cooled only, with a maximum of two cylinders, and a maximum displacement of 350cc, that were built before December 31, 1968 (or like design).
    Four stroke overhead valve engines shall be air cooled only, with a maximum of two cylinders, and a maximum displacement of 650cc, that were built before December 31, 1968 (or like design). These four stroke overhead valve engines may be of pushrod, single or dual overhead cam design.
    Four stroke side valve engines shall be air cooled only, with a maximum of two cylinders, and a maximum displacement of 750cc, built before December 31, 1968 (or like design).

    Engines in P1 may use the technology of the period prior to December 31, 1968. Engines in P1 shall be carbureted only. Supercharging and/or fuel injection are prohibited in P1.

    Permitted Examples:
    • AJS 7R
    • BMW
    • Bridgestone 350
    • Ducati bevel drive single
    • Honda CB/CL450
    • Kawasaki 350 Avenger
    • Matchless G50
    • Norton Manx
    • Suzuki T350 Rebel
    • Vincent 1000cc twins (by special exemption)
    • Yamaha TR2, YM1, YDS5

    10.10.4 PERIOD 2 Super Vintage Sidecar Outfits (P2):
    P2 sidecar outfits are limited to front exit sidecars built before December 31, 1972 and outfits constructed after such date that are consistent in design and construction with outfits actually built in this period, subject to the following restrictions:

    10.10.4.1 ENGINES:
    Two stroke engines shall be air cooled only, with a maximum of three cylinders, and a maximum displacement of 500cc, that were built before December 31, 1972 (or like design).
    Four stroke overhead valve engines shall be air cooled only, with a maximum of two cylinders, and a maximum displacement of 750cc, that were built before December 31, 1972 (or like design). These four stroke overhead valve engines may be of pushrod, single or dual overhead cam design.
    Four stroke side valve engines shall be air cooled only, with a maximum of two cylinders, and a maximum displacement of 750cc, built before December 31, 1972 (or like design).

    Engines in P2 may use the technology of the period prior to December 31, 1972. Engines in P2 shall be carbureted only. Supercharging and/or fuel injection are prohibited in P2.

    Permitted Examples:
    • BMW
    • BSA 650
    • Ducati bevel drive 750
    • Honda 450, 500
    • Kawasaki 500
    • Moto Guzzi 750
    • Norton Commando 750 (850 de-stroked, sleeved, or a combination of both, maximum 750cc)
    • Suzuki GT500
    • Triumph 650,750 twins including TR7 (no short rod 750’s)
    • Yamaha XS 650, maximum 750cc
    • Yamaha RD400, TR3,

    This being said I still don’t like the ‘examples’ but it can clarify some grey areas. In this case the maximums were given. In P1 could you run a bridegestone 175…sure, you can run up to a 350. In p2 could you run a t500 sure up to and including the later model gt500’s. P2 Triple quackers… sure, up to max displacement of 500. P1/P2 TD/TR/RD line was drawn through major engine case changes not just piston port to reedvalve. Bring it on, lets see some rigs.

  12. Dale Lavender January 28, 2015 at 12:00 am - Reply

    Thanks Gregg, Tim and Ryan,
    Tim as for the Vincent it runs in P1 and the year is correct so would you rather not see it at the track or simply follow USCRA lead?
    Also AHRMA awards the National Championship to the Super Vintage P2 Class. AHRMA has always tried to be all encompassing so let’s just enjoy the moment with this very special rig. As for the grid that’s not my place or doing but yes I did notice that. Congratulations on some fine driving!
    Ryan submit your example as a rules change proposal. Much of which you previously submitted made it to the final draft. The current rules are not etched in granite but we’ve worked very hard to be consistent with USCRA and VRRA. We also took in consideration the rules as they pertain to motorcycles…it’s a fine line.
    All in all it’s a very good start and thank you for your interest.

  13. tim joyce January 29, 2015 at 6:54 pm - Reply

    Oh I to think its a beautiful l machine . it will run with p2 rigs very nice and wont run off the p1 guys like it has at uscra. would you build a 450 Honda and race against it 🙂 I wouldn’t . second ahrma told me you set the grid 🙂

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